News feed by deepak

[Kamini]

While scrolling through the news feed section of this forum, I suddenly came across this lengthy and a quite polarized comment. After reading this comment, I couldn't restrain myself from replying to this muddled fabrication of words which contradicts so many facts and historical truths.

Let me answer all your queries and dissect various claims made by you to point out those "stupid bunch of biased Indians" who according to your beliefs are dissing China for no significant reason since decades. Let's start with your first question.

Q:- What did they do to get this much of hatred from Indians?

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure about the degree of hatred those "bunch of Indians" have for these "innocent Chinese", but I'm pretty sure about the fact that any rationalist Indian who has ever turned the pages of history to read about their treacherous acts in the past won't like them for sure.

It is the same country who backstabbed us in 1962 just after that hard-earned independence from colonial rule, while we were trying to maintain a cordial relationship with them and signed a bilateral Panchsheel agreement too to strengthen the same.

It is the same country that has been continuously trying to extend its sovereignty over eastern Indian states near LAC just after our independence and that recent Galwan Valley clash between the soldiers from both sides is a hot example of the same.

It is the same (and only) country among P-5 nations who openly opposes India's bid to attain veto power and permanent membership at UNSC.


Historical facts don't lie.. yes they can be manipulated but truth can't be hidden for too long.


Let me also state one fact here that once India was also offered a permanent membership seat at UNSC in 1952 and hence we got an opportunity to get this veto power by replacing China but the then PM JL Nehru ji denied that offer to keep their relationships intact with China and USSR. Consequently, China regained its veto power and today we are paying the cost of that foolishness by the then PM JL Nehru. Now, we are toiling hard to get that seat at UNSC. Later, we were backstabbed by these innocent Chinese(the people we have been dissing out for decades) in Sino-Indian War of 1962.

Things don't stop here, if anyone who is aware of the international affairs must be be cognizant of the fact that it is the same country that keeps on threatening its comparatively weak neighbouring countries(viz. Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines etc.) to illegally extend its territory in South China Sea. (a well known issue these days)

I can cite many more examples here on the international front which speaks volumes about their hidden motive and a quest to become a superpower in order to establish their supremacy all over the globe.


Now let's come to your next point about Covid-19 and its effect on the whole world.

Today, no one can deny the fact that Corona virus was originated from China and then turned into a pandemic. Till date, we have no concrete evidence to prove that if it was a genetically modified virus or a natural virus. But we have sufficient evidence to claim that China along with WHO deliberately hid and manipulated the informations regarding this virus which was first detected in Nov 2019 in China. Had they revealed this information as early as possible, the world wouldn't have witnessed this much damage. So who is responsible for this damage? This is the prime reason that brought China's credibility under scanner. (This was the reply to your "what the heck did they do?")

I reject all other false claims based on mere speculations. Our economy and GPD has less to do with covid-19 pandemic here and it had already begun to decline due to demonetization, implementation of GST and some other unplanned decisions by Modi Government prior to this covid-19 pandemic. But yes, things got worse due to this pandemic, which was already inevitable.

So I don't support these manipulated claims(using covid-19 as a tool) by some politically biased citizens of this country, which are solely intended to cover up the failure of this government on many fronts. But this doesn't mean that we should allow outside forces to take advantage of these internal politics and ongoing socio-economic issues in our country.

Now if you're are talking about some bilateral relations between two countries (like China-Pak relations or US-India relations) then you need to learn a lot about "International Diplomacy" and how things work on international front. There is nothing like friends here when it comes to international diplomacy. Counties are just in alliance with each other for their mutual benefits and progress and can change their stand anytime so we should always have our back covered. Therefore, international relations has less to do with emotional attachments and works on the pragmatic approach only. It's a very tricky game that many diplomats fail to understand. Our country is already paying the cost of her benovalence towards this world.

It is the same country that posted a picture on their social app "Wiebo" in which they mocked India's covid-19 crisis in May this year. Caption of the picture was- "Lightning a fire in China vs lighting a fire in India" in which they were comparing a Rocket Launch with the burning dead bodies in India(I can't attach that barbaric picture here, you can google it). Oh! but wait, what the heck did they do???? Why do some "stupid bunch of arrogant Indians" dislike them???

Expressing our concern towards China or any other country doesn't mean that we are targeting their each and every citizen, it's the ruling parties and goverments that holds accountability, which eventually and unfortunately represents the majority of their common citizens only.

But some people of our country are so blindfolded by this "extreme level of liberalism" that they don't want to see the ground reality here. They just take everything on political grounds and has nothing to do with the intregrity of this nation.

Rest of the things you mentioned in this post are far away from any practical significance and are irrelevant with the context of this above-mentioned subject here. Those are the personal opinions that subject to change with individuals and groups all around the world. FYI, all the recognized inventions are already a patent of their respective inventors so I don't see any point in bragging about these things here.

Before posting anything about such grave socio-political issues, I urge you to go through a thorough study about these subjects. Being Liberal doesn't mean that we can say anything without knowing the facts, especially when it's something related to the matters of national integrity and sovereignty.

Hope, I was able to answer some of your queries and clear your doubts on factual grounds by stating some of the facts here(the facts which I believe you were unaware of till now).

― Equanimous
5:44 A.M. IST,
12th August, 2021

Thank you for stating facts that otherwise I would never have known (cause I am not much into history).
Thank you for correcting me and whoever that got offended because of that comment but couldn't say anything to me, I publicly apologize.

And I wrote that post to make some people understand the reality at that time (hence that "stupid bunch" reference), Chinese people were facing discrimination abroad and in India, for the things they didn't do. Many Chinese people were discriminated against at shopping malls and stuff. People were blaming China for everything for the things they were not guilty of. If they are guilty of something, it is fine to blame them but if they are not guilty of something, why blame them? There is no point. If at all someone wants to blame someone, blame the Chinese Govt, like you said "they hid the truth about pandemic", that doesn't mean their citizens had anything to do with it. But after reading your comment I realized that I am not good at conveying things.

Thank you for making me realize that. And you said that I was talking about unrelated things but those unrelated things I mentioned, some people were talking about them on social media, those were the unrelated hot topics so I talked about them too but now I know, I was talking about them without knowing all the history, that makes me as stupid as that bunch I referred haha. It is ok though, accepting something makes people grow, right??

You earned my respect (as many people don't even try to correct me, don't know why, many times I ask people "did I do/say anything wrong?" and they just be like "Nah, you didn't" but you did, I wish everyone can be like you, respectful and sensible).

 

[Minervaa]

So, ya here goes - my understanding of China - both in general and in response to what you have written.

Positives: Zhong guo (that's how the Chinese call their country) is a resourceful nation.
Ever since they began to open up their economy thanks to the late 80's leader Deng Xiaoping,
the country has been chugging along quite well.

The Chinese are truly hardworking. And gel very well as a unit.
The communist party usually has clear plans for development .
Of course, some parts do lag behind.
But ya, overall, the Chinese do an amazing job - even in the field of education, and cutting edge research.
Their top 20 or so universities are world class, just like the US ones or some of the European ones.

The country has a rich civilization from the past - and yes, aspects like Kung fu, Tai Chi etc show insights into not only the physical wonders of humans but also the mental and psychological powers that humans can have.

As an unbiased Indian, I would say that we have been dissing China for decades, sometimes too much. What did they do to get this much hatred from Indians?
Our economy crashed, let's blame China
Our country caught a new disease, let's blame China
Our computers got hacked, let's blame China
Our soldiers died, let's blame China
I lost my pet, let's blame China
My cat peed in my pants, let's blame China
My wife eloped with my driver, let's blame China
What the heck did they do?

I can understand a few things, I support Atmanirbhar Bharat too. I know China is helping Pakistan. But I think a few Indians are taking it too far, including Govt Officials. We are importing things from them because we need them, China is not holding us at gunpoint and forcing us to buy from them. I agree, during and after Corona, China's economy thrived, it doesn't mean we can blame them for everything.

Having said all that, the Chinese suffered from a millennia long monarchy and in early 20th century, they somehow managed to overthrow the monarchy and made the switch to communism thanks to people like Mao Zedong (Mao Tse Tung). However, its true that the communist party can sometimes bully, and is known to suppress dissent in the most crushing ways.
As for India, we used to blame Pak for a lot - now we blame China

C is not a true gentleman (but then who is ?)

We are still learning team work and do struggle at it. Our diversity can be our strength but also our weakness .
So ya, its convenient for us to blame C - I personally feel some of the blame is true, and others are not true.

1)Our soldiers died in the Galwan River valley fighting with Chinese soldiers but China didn't release their body count so we started dissing it, saying their army is weak, we killed more of their soldiers, China is scared of us. What the heck is this? It sounds like an invitation for war with them. It is like provoking them. And we didn't even know who was telling the truth, our Govt or the Chinese Govt. We just started believing whatever our Govt said. We didn't know who pulled the trigger first or who advanced their positions first. This is a problem many fail to see.

1. GALWAN - Big incident - not easy to know what truly happened. Army fights/wars always have two versions.
Very difficult to know what occurred. However , it is true that China has been flexing its muscles in many parts of Africa,
in Tibet, in the southern seas near Philippines and other areas as its military powers expand.

They are efficient guys but need not be believed to keep their word.
Anyway, Galwan truth - few will ever know. Foreign policy talk and decisions in such disputes are usually very complex. So i am not knowledgeable enough to comment further. Suffice to say - everyone is better off living in peace.
[and both countries know this fact! if a war does break out, there will be no clear winner - even if a winner does emerge in a battle]

In North Korea, Kim Jong-Un is projected as a god to them. Because their Govt says he is protecting his people but the world knows the truth as a third person. The truth is lost when there is no unbiased witness to articulate what exactly happened. We can only hear the perspectives and form something close to the truth. But that truth won't be exactly true.

North Korea - the leader's atrocities are well known.
He has executed his own family members - close ones,
even those who have served his father and his own self for many decades.
He is no doubt a dictator. There is surely a huge % of absence of freedom and rights in the country.
In fact, it does exist in China too.

For instance, we were warned by our Chinese guide - "never lose ur passport.
If u do, your Indian embassy cannot do anything. it will be entirely upto Chinese authorities to decide
whether they will send u back or just make u spend ur life in china itself." - now that was chilling .
N Korea is far worse. There are no doubts here.

2)During the pandemic, many people across the world came up with this bullshit, "China declared a Bio-war on the world". People started saying "China created Corona in a lab and discovered a vaccine for it too, China hid the vaccine for itself and released the virus on the world". I still don't understand why some people believe that. Science is not that advanced yet, not even in China. And it was definitely not a bio-war.

2) PANDEMIC - Honestly we don't know the truth. Current science says the virus is a natural evolution.
However, current science has also not completely dismissed that it cud have a lab origin. Which country or countries contributed if the virus is man-made - never easy to know.

So , it's good to be open - however, there is no doubt that the Chinese authorities dismissed the virus in Wuhan, suppressed evidence, did not publicly announce the still-nascent disease as potentially pandemic-causing. And the first whistle blowers were arrested.
Human rights violation does exist in Zhong guo.

3)Some of our countrymen are so stupid. Whatever China or European countries invent, they claim that it was in our scriptures, our ancestors had that technology or we invented it first. I know our ancestors were smart but why do some people still believe in "we invented everything", "we are the smartest ones". Let's give other countries credit for their inventions too, there is no harm in that. Can we agree that we don't know somethings too, instead of saying "everything is in our scriptures"? Let's not inflate our egos.

3) "Everything in scriptures" - am with you on this point.

While the scriptures are profound and stunning in some aspects (come on, who would have expected that relativistic physics and the truth of time dilation exists in our culture?), its definitely true that we have to credit the great ones of other nations be it Euclid, Archimedes, Aristotle, Al Khwarizmi, or Newton or Dirac.

Even if some of what they said or discovered are present in some form in the scriptures, it is not present in a form that we could immediately use.
So ya - we must be open to all.

4)We stole their Kung-Fu. Well, not exactly but many of the Indians believe that Kung-Fu is our art and the Chinese stole it from us. There is no concrete evidence to suggest that but still, people believe that. Don't know why.

4) Kung-fu - Haha - well interaction between china and India did exist over many many centuries,
Much more has flowed from India into China when it comes to knowledge.
However, that does not mean everything China has, has its origin in India. Definitely not Mandarin haha.

Mandarin is not derived from Sanskrit - sorry.

So , while martial arts was also present in India, I am not too sure if Kungfu's origin can be traced to India.
In all likelihood, the answer is a no.

5)We accused China of stealing our data and selling it, we accused their apps spying on us which is true in some cases. So we banned their apps and products which was welcoming. But no one was talking about Google? Google's got your data, probably more than China could ever collect. So let's ban Google too. We are being a hypocrite here, Google is from the US, US is our friend, so let's not ban Google. If Google was from China, then we would have banned it.

And many more like this.

Just for a sec, why don't we try to be unbiased and think things through, instead of just believing in rumours.

I know what few people are thinking "prevention is better than cure", "we must be ready always", "they are our enemy". That is alright, but it should never mean we can blame China for everything. That is not healthy behavior. If we blame people, or fear people without knowing the truth then that is Paranoid Personality Disorder for God's sake.

5) CHINA - does steal - but not from India, but from the USA - from Wash DC
Haha. They are so good that they have quite efficiently stolen classified data from the USA. Of course, India would be a cakewalk here for them

As for Google - definitely. No doubts!
I agree!

the problem with us - China came up with Baidu (a hundred times) - did we manage to come up with something? anything?
We Indians generally have lost the ability to innovate or discover something new. We haven't done much for the last 3-4 centuries, stuff that changed the way the world functions. If Contributions of significance from India, you and I must waste less time, be focused, have that passion of our ancestors, and lead a principled life.
We are still learning.

Thanks for reading my long missive!
Xoxo

 

[Stupidworld]

While scrolling through the news feed section of this forum, I suddenly came across this lengthy and a quite polarized comment. After reading this comment, I couldn't restrain myself from replying to this muddled fabrication of words which contradicts so many facts and historical truths.

Let me answer all your queries and dissect various claims made by you to point out those "stupid bunch of biased Indians" who according to your beliefs are dissing China for no significant reason since decades. Let's start with your first question.

Q:- What did they do to get this much of hatred from Indians?

Honestly speaking, I'm not sure about the degree of hatred those "bunch of Indians" have for these "innocent Chinese", but I'm pretty sure about the fact that any rationalist Indian who has ever turned the pages of history to read about their treacherous acts in the past won't like them for sure.

It is the same country who backstabbed us in 1962 just after that hard-earned independence from colonial rule, while we were trying to maintain a cordial relationship with them and had signed a bilateral Panchsheel agreement too to strengthen the same.

It is the same country that has been continuously trying to extend its sovereignty over eastern Indian states near LAC, right after our independence and that recent Galwan Valley clash between the soldiers from both sides is a hot example of the same.

It is the same (and only) country among P-5 nations who openly opposes India's bid to attain veto power and a permanent membership at UNSC.


Historical facts don't lie.. yes they can be manipulated but truth can't be hidden for too long.


Let me also state one fact here that once India was also offered a permanent membership seat at UNSC in 1952 and hence we got an opportunity to get this veto power by replacing China but the then PM JL Nehru ji denied that offer to keep their relationships intact with China and USSR. Consequently, China regained its veto power and today we are paying the cost of that foolishness by the then PM JL Nehru. Now, we are toiling hard to get that seat at UNSC. Later, we were backstabbed by these innocent Chinese(the people we have been dissing out for decades) in Sino-Indian War of 1962.

Things don't stop here, if anyone who is aware of the international affairs must be be cognizant of the fact that it is the same country that keeps on threatening its comparatively weak neighbouring countries(viz. Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines etc.) to illegally extend its territory in South China Sea. (a well known issue these days)

I can cite many more examples here on the international front which speak volumes about their hidden motive and a quest to become a superpower in order to establish their supremacy all over the globe.


Now let's come to your next point about Covid-19 and its effect on the whole world.

Today, no one can deny the fact that Corona virus was originated from China and then turned into a pandemic. Till date, we have no concrete evidence to prove that if it was a genetically modified virus or a natural virus. But we have sufficient evidence to claim that China along with WHO deliberately hid and manipulated the informations regarding this virus which was first detected in Nov 2019 in China. Had they revealed this information as early as possible, the world wouldn't have witnessed this much damage. So who is responsible for this damage? This is the prime reason that brought China's credibility under scanner. (This was the reply to your "what the heck did they do?")

I reject all other false claims based on mere speculations. Our economy and GPD has less to do with covid-19 pandemic here and it had already begun to decline due to demonetization, implementation of GST and some other unplanned decisions by Modi Government prior to this covid-19 pandemic. But yes, things got worse due to this pandemic, which was already inevitable.

So I don't support these manipulated claims(using covid-19 as a tool) by some politically biased citizens of this country, which are solely intended to cover up the failure of this government on many fronts. But this doesn't mean that we should allow outside forces to take advantage of these internal politics and ongoing socio-economic issues in our country.

Now if you're are talking about some bilateral relations between two countries (like China-Pak relations or US-India relations) then you need to learn a lot about "International Diplomacy" and how things work on international front. There is nothing like friends here when it comes to international diplomacy. Counties are just in alliance with each other for their mutual benefits and progress and can change their stand anytime so we should always have our back covered. Therefore, international relations has less to do with emotional attachments and works on the pragmatic approach only. It's a very tricky game that many diplomats fail to understand. Our country is already paying the cost of her benovalence towards this world.

It is the same country that posted a picture on their social app "Wiebo" in which they mocked India's covid-19 crisis in May this year. Caption of the picture was- "Lightning a fire in China vs lighting a fire in India" in which they were comparing a Rocket Launch with the burning dead bodies in India(I can't attach that barbaric picture here, you can google it). Oh! but wait, what the heck did they do???? Why do some "stupid bunch of arrogant Indians" dislike them???

Expressing our resentment towards China or any other country doesn't mean that we are targeting their each and every citizen, it's the ruling parties and goverments that holds accountability, which eventually and unfortunately represents the majority of their common citizens only.

But some people of our country are so blindfolded by this "extreme level of liberalism" that they don't want to see the ground reality here. They just take everything on political grounds and have nothing to do with the intregrity of this nation.

Rest of the things you mentioned in this post are far away from any practical significance and are irrelevant with the context of this above-mentioned subject here. Those are the personal opinions that subject to change with individuals and groups all around the world. FYI, all the recognized inventions are already a patent of their respective inventors so I don't see any point in bragging about these things here.

Before posting anything about such grave socio-political issues, I urge you to go through a thorough study about these subjects. Being Liberal doesn't mean that we can say anything without knowing the facts, especially when it's something related to the matters of national integrity and sovereignty.

Hope, I was able to answer some of your queries and clear your doubts on factual grounds by stating some of the facts here(the facts which I believe you were unaware of till now).

― Equanimous
5:44 A.M. IST,
12th August, 2021

Absolutely spot on and I would like to add upon few more points

1. How the Chinese treat the uighur Muslims. Repression of the already poor community by putting them in concentration camps and calling that as "re-educating ".

2. The Hong Kong issue : The British left Hong Kong in 1997 and the Chinese agreed on a Fifty year autonomy for the Hong kong and just within 20 years the chinese have started cracking down the freedom of Hong Kong , time and again Chinese have broken the promise .

3.Human trafficking : china is one of the worst countries where mostly the migrant labours are bought and sold off as slaves ..so much for the communism speaking country.

4. Sex trafficking : we have seen a lot of news on how pakistani women are sold of to Chinese men and in return they are pushed into prostitution by the chinese men who marries them .

5.using other countries as modern day territorial colonies : Like how they have occupied Hambantota port or how they are building dams in POK which is violation of the UN agreement and how they have forced pakistan to surrender shaksgam valley .how they have increased military activities in Taiwan . Also China's colony game in poor African nation is alarming they have presence in 39 countries

6.Tianhe : The weather modification program which will bring more rains to China but scientists fear that the neighbouring countries would be deprived of Rain if china do implement it which was planned to be implemented in 2025.

7. Dispute with Neighbouring countries:
China has maritime dispute with Taiwan,
Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Singapore and Brunei while land dispute with India, Nepal, Bhutan, Laos, Mongolia, Vietnam,Myanmar,Kazakhstan,Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Russia.